The Right Is Tired and It Shows

Dear right-wingers,

You’re getting tired, aren’t you? It’s starting to take its toll – this battle to hang on to every precious penny while simultaneously trying to justify such immense greed. It’s getting harder and harder to explain why you as “Christians” have no problem with obscene wealth and retributive killing, despite the very tenets of your faith commanding you* to the contrary**. At the end of the day, you are weary of continually defending the same indefensible positions such as the notion that paying for public schools and health care for children is bad but paying a fee just to withdraw your own money from the bank is perfectly acceptable. You’re starting to lose your grip and it’s showing. To wit…

♠ The “Chicken Little” metaphor is played. PLAYED. If you’re as clever as you think you are, come up with something new.

♠ Continually posting articles written by other, more articulate repugs isn’t “spreading the word”; it’s just a sad, slightly more acceptable form of plagiarism.

♠ Your group is becoming more and more crowded with straw men who, as everyone knows, only start showing up for your parties after the discerning and relevant people have gotten sleepy and headed home.

♠ Supporting McCain now that he’s the shoe-in after you’ve spent the last six months deriding his every move is probably the most obvious signifier of all.

You’ve got nothing. Nothing but years of shitty policy-making that has widened the gap between rich and poor, garnered a world full of enemies, made America weaker than ever (both militarily and financially), and stripped its citizens of civil rights which were once deemed the Most Important Thing Ever. But what did you expect? It’s not easy constantly trying to uphold flawed logic systems. It’s a taxing endeavor to support the systematic removal of your freedoms while claiming to be fighting to save those same freedoms. Apologizing for Dubya and his band of horned incubi would wear out even the most resilient of asshats – just ask Tony Snow. And I don’t even want to think about how demanding it must be for you to forever be outsmarting God (har!) by creatively re-interpreting whatever Bible passages don’t fit your Love-of-Money agenda.

You need a nap. Why not just lay those fat, self-absorbed heads down on a goose-feather pillow covered in a nice, 800 thread count Pratesi pillowcase and sleep it off for, oh, about forty years. When you wake up, a Democrat will have (once again) balanced the budget, restored our rights, and made it up to the old, formally loyal allies we’ve recently buggered but good. Then you can stretch, have a couple screwdrivers, and get right to work fucking it all up all over again.

Nighty-night.

*Matthew 19:21-23
**Romans 12:19-20

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About kirkstarr

I draw pictures for a living.
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57 Responses to The Right Is Tired and It Shows

  1. Cat says:

    I seriously LOVE you man…You have once again said so eloquently what my mind has been thinking for quite some time…. Kudos to you Kirk.

  2. Hey I am a liberal right-winger (if that makes ANY sense) and vote Republican… but I still found this funny and on some points scarily true about the party.
    Although I am sure a Dem rebuttle could be just as tongue-in-cheek, humorous, and blanket negative truths about that party as well.
    Great writing Kirk.

  3. Kirk says:

    Thanks! 🙂 It's nice to know a conservative thinker can read my anti-right rants and appreciate them for what they're worth. My neighbor Budd is the same way. I love him for that.Although I am sure a Dem rebuttle could… blanket negative truths about that party as well.I may have been snarky, but I don't think I've lied here, have I? I mean, as a rule, righties hate taxes. As a rule, conservatives don't want their money going to pay for someone else's medicine or food. As a rule, Republicans think corporate greed is justified as a necessity of doing business. I will admit to having a very nasty way of phrasing these things, but I sincerely believe them to be true. 🙂

  4. SweetMisery says:

    A fantastic post. Full of awesome ugly truths. You managed to say it all without anger. Hope this gets around the whole USA. You are a gifted and loving man. Thank you.

  5. Xeyli says:

    [いいですね]

  6. snoringKatZ says:

    I'm tired too but I'm so not right. Nicely done, Kirk!

  7. Kirk says:

    "…people are going to assume there will be immediate results/changes from the way things are. That's gonna suck for them, because to re-organize is going to take a lot of time…"Agreed. But I think most people know that George W. Bush has done IMMENSE damage and that fixing the largest deficit in our nation's history and regaining the world's trust is not something that can be done in short order. But I have faith that a intelligent humanitarian can do it, which is why I continue to vote Democrat.

  8. Normita says:

    Fantastic, lets get them on those pillows and clean this mess up.

  9. Crush says:

    snarketty snark snark.
    I dont think the religion card is unique to the right, though perhaps its more obvious (or perhaps more obviously hypocritical) there. Its for just that reason that our 200+ year old Constitution still rings true: separation of church and state.
    The right to bear arms though, does seem seem all of its years long in the tooth. I guess that's off topic, but it probably serves as a perfect example of why I could never been put into any political box–right or left. I want whats best for my country and its people. That, in and of itself, may make me both unique and part of the minority. The majority, apparently caring more about their party "winning" than anything else…

  10. Kirk says:

    "That, in and of itself, may make me both unique and part of the
    minority. The majority, apparently caring more about their party
    "winning" than anything else."You make a good point, Crush. I vote left because I truly believe it is a liberal attitude that is going to work best for the people. We don't need the rich getting richer, we don't need to limit individual rights and we don't need to isolate ourselves from the world. Since that's all that the right is willing to bring to the table — disparity, suppression, and isolationism — I'm solid in my stance that I am a Dem… for all the right reasons.

  11. CrowSeer says:

    Sadly, Kirk, I think you've failed to consider "The Beauty of Conservatism".

  12. Cat says:

    I think I just threw up in my mouth…Ann the C*nt Coulter…My pal Henry sums it up best here…

  13. Snowy says:

    Well said, Kirk. I never could understand the sense in espousing a "Greed is God" mantra, and then having to arm yourself to deal with the consequences of that barren philosophy. We've just got rid of Dubya's stooge who was trying to take us down that path in Australia. Good luck to our liberal friends in the U.S. in the coming Presidential election. We'll be cheering you on.

  14. Kirk says:

    Ha ha ha! Awesome, Dee! You of all people know my great love of irony.Honestly, if Ann Coulter is the prime example of a conservative "beauty", then I guess I understand why neo-cons so confused in so many other areas.

  15. Kirk. It always stuns me when people say the Republicans are the party of God. Simply put, the Bible tells us to do justice, to love, mercy, to keep no record of wrongs, to forgive, to care for the alien, the orphan, and the widow, to be gentle and long-suffering, to clothe the naked, and feed the hungry, most of these things I never see as priorities in the party.It never ceases to amaze me when we 'christians' get together and talk politics suddenly the two greatest commandments become "thou shalt vote for the party against abortion" and "thou shalt preserve the sanctity of marriage". Uh-huh. Right. Thats a lot like loving your neighbor as yourself.Thanks for ranting. I appreciated it.

  16. Scott says:

    Sadly, Kirk, I think you've failed to consider "The Beauty of Conservatism".
    I love the tagline with that–"Ann Coulter […] proves it is possible to be beautiful, intelligent, and conservative."
    It's like even they think it's a given that most conservatives aren't beautiful or intelligent. Way to go on the self-esteem, guys. Tired, all right.

  17. NO, you are right. That's why I call them "blanket truths"… meaning that if you blanketed the generic opionions of right-wingers… that would be true… but nothing is as simple as it seems. I consider myself a liberal republican because although I fully support capitalism and the support of american business… I also support the environement and certain public programs. Although I am more of the people that believe teaching a man to fish is a much better way of helping him than giving him a seafood meal. Know what i mean? 🙂 And there are a lot of truth's about dems that I could bring up and say about the Dems that are not flattering, but true. I am the first one that can laugh and see my faults, as well as the parties that I support or don't support.

  18. Jenn says:

    brilliantly said my friend.absolutely brilliant. 🙂

  19. Lurkertype says:

    Honestly, if Ann Coulter is the prime example of a conservative
    "beauty", then I guess I understand why neo-cons so confused in so many
    other areas.BRILLIANT!!!

  20. Kirk says:

    Honestly… I guess I understand why neo-cons so confused in so many other areas.BRILLIANT!!!Thanks, LT! Would've been even more so had I not left out the word "are". 🙂 I hate not being able to edit comments.

  21. Kirk says:

    "My pal Henry sums it up best here…"Awesome. You already know Rollins is a hero of mine. Panda just bought one of his DVDs. Yup, I raise 'em right. 😉

  22. Lurkertype says:

    S'okay: my brain put it in there.It's the thought that counts, right?

  23. Scio, Scio says:

    I'm not sure all your criticisms are valid. Obviously, when conservatives deviate from their principles it makes for problems. I think the writing is on the wall anyway. Voter turnout at the primaries has been obscene for the Democrats. The conservatives in the country aren't wild about their candidate and the liberals are ga-ga for "hope and change."

  24. Kirk says:

    "Obviously, when conservatives deviate from their principles it makes for problems."Indeed, when anyone deviates from their principles it makes for problems. We just have to agree on what constitutes a "problem". For me, things like deliberately making the rich richer and the poor poorer is a problem. Kids not having enough school books is a problem. Americans starving is a problem. Having the government wiretap my phone without reasonable cause is a problem. "I'm not sure all your criticisms are valid."Well, of course I disagree, but would you care to elaborate? Because the criticisms I've listed here can all be backed up by fact. The world hates us, the status gap is wider than ever, the US dollar is as weak, our rights have been stomped on, and the massive deficit we had during the Reagan/Bush years was turned into the biggest surplus this country has ever enjoyed by a Democrat.

  25. Scio, Scio says:

    “Chicken Little”Agreed, it is overplayed. Continually posting articles written by other, more articulate repugs
    isn’t “spreading the word”; it’s just a sad, slightly more acceptable
    form of plagiarism.Guilty here. I wouldn't call it plagiarism, since there is usually citation of some sort. Sometimes it is clear that smarter people have said it better, and I know I feel pretentious when I try to add anything to them.Your group is becoming more and more crowded with straw men
    who, as everyone knows, only start showing up for your parties after
    the discerning and relevant people have gotten sleepy and headed home. Unfortunately, this is true. And unfortunately some people are persuaded by straw men, which is why they remain a part of discourse. Though you've done a fair job misrepresenting the conservative position yourself. Supporting McCain now that he’s the shoe-in after you’ve spent the
    last six months deriding his every move is probably the most obvious
    signifier of all.Yeah, guilty again. We're not happy with the selection this year. I actually conceded the election last March…When you wake up, a Democrat will have Of course, conservatives believe that when we wake up we'll have to clean up after another Carter…but meh. I made a post about Barack Obama and after it was hijacked by insane-o types I decided that even if Obama is President the US will still be a great country. The President, for all the rhetoric of the left and for all the undeniable trends of the past century, is not yet a dictator.

  26. Kirk says:

    "I wouldn't call it plagiarism, since there is usually citation of some sort."Heh, you're right. Technically, it's not plagiarism. That's why I called it "slightly more acceptable". I was trying to meet you half-way. OK, maybe I was just being snarky as usual."Though you've done a fair job misrepresenting the conservative position yourself. "I actually thought about how my Spanish Inquisition parody accused neo-cons of ad-hominem arguments when it was, in itself, one big ad-hominem attack. Then I realized it was my editorial and not a formal debate, thereby encompassing a different ruleset. When engaged in a debate, I try my best not to resort to fallacies and expect to be called on them when I do.I don't think I've grossly misrepresented anything here, however."…conservatives believe that when we wake up we'll have to clean up after another Carter…"Fair enough, I guess, but Carter did nowhere near the damage Dubya has done.I made a post about Barack Obama and after it was hijacked by insane-o
    types I decided that even if Obama is President the US will still be a
    great country.Yes, it will, but not in spite of Obama being president.For what it's worth, I didn't want to touch your Obama thread with a ten-foot pole after that karlos dude started tripping. I can debate with the staunchest of Republicans, but I can't abide nonsensical gibberish.

  27. Scio, Scio says:

    The world hates usEurope might, and Asia might, but the whole world? I think the president's recent trip to Africa made it clear that not everyone thinks we're terrible. Ever been hated for doing the right thing? Christians experience it all the time, mocked for their beliefs and for making their faith public. It's a loose analogy, but let's look at trends in Europe. Conservatives would say that one of the most important challenges facing our civilization is the threat posed by militant Islam. Now, in Europe we have a steadily growing Muslim population and a steadily stagnant European population. These Muslims are not just becoming French, or Danes, or Britons. They are refusing to assimilate and are carrying things like honor killing into these Western nations. Conservatives believe that we can make an objective judgment about an action or a belief and label it "right" or "wrong." Liberalism, for all its concern for the poor and needy, is beset by a relativism which hampers it tremendously in dealing with the threat posed by medieval-minded, expansionist Muslims. And in Europe, criticism of Muslims who refuse to assimilate is often labeled bigotry. Here in the U.S. too. Canada was even considering prosecution against Mark Steyn, who wrote the book on European decline.So the world hates us, but that is because we have chosen to do something about the threat of radical Islam instead of suggesting that we allow shari'a law courts or give tax breaks to men with multiple wives. And our allies feel compelled to join in the effort because at the very core they know that without our intervention and our money they would face serious difficulties. Resentment is the reward of those who hold power. Always been that way.the status gap is wider than everNot my area. I believe that given the chance the American businessman will be successful. I believe that our tax system punishes ingenuity and innovation, stifling the growth of small businesses, which is absurdly important to our economy.Info is dated, I think, but here:Fully 99 percent of
    all independent enterprises in the country employ fewer than 500
    people. These small enterprises account for 52 percent of all U.S.
    workers,So I believe that taxing the rich is both unfair and inhibitive. Have you ever had to make a decision about your income based on the tax implications? I have not as yet, but I would be inclined to stay in my income bracket if I would be taxed progressively for my success.the US dollar is as weakWait it out. The economy, I don't have to tell you, can and does recover. I don't know if I like this idea of a stimulus package (I know mine is going right out of the economy and right into my creditor's hands) as a fix, but I did find it funny that Bush outdid the Democratic candidates when he proposed it. Not funny ha-ha, though.our rights have been stomped onI always ask people how they have been directly affected by this violation of our liberties. Not many people answer. I then ask them what they propose we do if they acknowledge that1. We have an enemy, and they are terrorists who do not operate within borders and in uniform. They can even be in our own country, working as a fifth column.2. These terrorists use cell phones, e-mail and other new technology to coordinate their efforts, carry out their plans, and attack us. These devices exist, mostly unmonitored. Given that these two situations are the truth, how do we respect the liberty of our citizens to be free of warrantless search, while at the same time preventing an attack on our country by those who abuse the very freedoms we protect? And, how do we maintain oversight of the gov't program without broadcasting our tactics to the enemy? My stance is that the government has been very careful to employ its surveillance in an unobtrusive and targeted manner. It is the responsibility of the electorate, with a little help from the 2nd Amendment, to keep the government honest. and the massive deficit we had during the Reagan/Bush years was turned into the biggest surplus this country has ever enjoyed by a Democrat.Yes well, the Soviet Union certainly did take a lot out of us monetarily. But I'd weigh the cost in dollars against the cost in human life had we actually gone to war. I don't think we can claim that a Democrat gave us a massive surplus, nor do I think we can say that the surplus was a delayed result of the Reagan years. Not my area.

  28. Red Pen says:

    "It’s a taxing endeavor to support the systematic removal of your
    freedoms while claiming to be fighting to save those same freedoms."Well said. Great post, Kirk.

  29. Scio, Scio says:

    For what it's worth, I didn't want to touch your Obama thread with a ten-foot pole after that karlos dude started tripping. I can debate with the staunchest of Republicans, but I can't abide nonsensical gibberish. I am so glad that we are on the same page. It was heartwarming for me to see the Americans on site pull together to defend against the unstable foreigner, which precipitated my comment that even if Obama is President…we'll be fine.editorial and not a formal debate, thereby encompassing a different ruleset.Absolutely. I think it should be made clear in the commentary section when something is being debated and when it is merely being further editorialized.Yes, it will, but not in spite of Obama being president.On this, we disagree. Unless Obama gets into office and surprises us all by revealing that he is in fact a classical liberal. Not likely.

  30. Kirk says:

    "Europe might, and Asia might, but the whole world?"You're right; I should've put "most of" in there. Not everyone hates us, but we've lost the trust and respect of so many. I hate that. I want the widely admired icon of freedom and prosperity America I knew as a kid. The one that didn't start wars, only ended them (or gave up, granted)."Liberalism, for all its concern for the poor and needy, is beset by a
    relativism which hampers it tremendously in dealing with the threat
    posed by medieval-minded, expansionist Muslims."This is actually something I've spent a lot of time thinking about lately. I'm not so liberal I can't see a dangerous fanatic for what he is and I would agree that proper defense against someone like bin Laden or factions like Al Qaeda is more than warranted.I fail to see how what we're doing in Iraq is solving anything, however. Our deficit grows at a ridiculous rate as a result (money we could have used to actually make our homeland more secure) and meanwhile I just got a notice this very day in the mail telling me the government's giving my household and 130 million others upwards of $600 per wage-earner and $300 per dependent child. Fact is, our tax money is being wasted on a morosely flawed strategy overseas and at the same time being handed back to us just to keep us spending.For such a high threat and for how much we've spent fighting it, Radical Islam sure hasn't diminished much. That hope and change stuff looks pretty good to me, Scio.our rights have been stomped on"I always ask people how they have been directly affected by this violation of our liberties. Not many people answer."I'd be happy to answer. I live in a country that once prided itself on the unmatched freedoms it afforded its people. Sucked when criminals got off on technicalities, but it beat falling into fascism. I'll admit we're dealing with a much larger animal than some serial killer off on a Miranda violation, but all the same unilaterally stripping my supposedly God-given rights from me to accomplish any ends whatsoever is completely antithetical to everything our forefathers fought for.What to do about it? Not my area. 🙂 I honestly don't know. All I can say to that is, do it without destroying what America stands for."My stance is that the government has been very careful to employ its surveillance in an unobtrusive and targeted manner."I sincerely wish I could agree, but I can't. "It was heartwarming for me to see the Americans on site pull together to defend against the unstable foreigner…"I didn't see it as US vs. Britain at all; I saw it as intelligent people vs. confused simpletons."On this, we disagree."So it goes. I think he's the best candidate. You don't. Things are as they should be, I suppose.

  31. tom says:

    "I always ask people how they have been directly affected by this violation of our liberties. Not many people answer."I'd be happy to answer. I live in a country that once prided itself on the unmatched freedoms it afforded its people. I have to agree with Scio Scio, in that I haven't personally been detained unlawfully or arrested for something I've said in a surreptitiously monitored phonecall or e-mail. But the greater truth is that, as you pointed out Kirk, we used to have unmatched freedoms. But there have been huge changes in the name of "Homeland Security." Anyone who flies can tell you about the increased security hassles–and nobody really wants me to take my shoes off in an inadequately ventilated area. The whole color-coded terror thing has worked. Every time the geniuses bump-up our terror level, we as a people become more terrified. Yes, Al-Qaeda hit us hard on September 11, 2001. It was a horrible, frightening attack that took years of planning to execute well. It scared a lot of people, myself included. But it was one successful attack versus how many plans our already intact security forces had stopped? It's not as if this nation didn't have systems and agencies in place before 9/11. In the 6.5 years since 9/11, that one attack has been used to justify some pretty unsavory shit that we as Americans would condemn if, say, France were doing it. Using military action to distract from political problems is nothing new. The day the House was scheduled to vote on impeaching Slick Willie, he bombed that aspirin factory. Nice sleight-of-hand. It didn't work forever–he was still impeached (and subsequently acquitted, of course). What the Dubaya administration has found out is that things are now bad enough here that we can't be rallied by bandying the word terror around. I admit that Bill Clinton is the luckiest sonofabitch ever to live in the White House–the Cold War had ended, so we didn't have to spend zillions on arms, and the tech-driven economy was exploding. Clinton was also prescient enough not to fuck anything up. He'll be remembered for the Monica Lewinsky thing, which should've been a non-issue. He wasn't impeached for getting a hummer, remember, but for lying about it. If he'd just come out and said, "Yup. I made a mistake. I let an intern blow me. Now, this is how I'm planning to fix social security." No impeachment. Jimmy Carter and others have run on the "are you better off now than you were four/eight years ago" theme. Let's see. Eight years ago, I made more money, spent a third as much as today for a gallon of gas, had better insurance for less money, and I could depend upon buying a home as a safe investment, because in our growing economy, there'll always be appreciation. Plus, I lived in a country that other countries didn't hate, en masse. What happened on 9/11 was tragic. But the real tragedy is that the way this administration has behaved since has undone so much of what this country was like on 9/10/01 and before, the successful, free, relatively happy country that so pissed-off the terrorists that they felt compelled to besmirch it.

  32. Toe-Knee says:

    Your post was fantastic and very well put. The Straw Men remark particularly apt. I do see the republican party as it currently is, in a horrible shambles chasing after phantom menaces like gay marriage and abortion like they're destroying the country, while destroying free speech, and systematically sniping off the rights of the people, two things that conservatives were once lauded for.

  33. Kirk,
    As much as I respect you and as well-written as I always find your posts, the tone of this is a tad too gleeful, for me, that is, considering the subject matter.
    Why do I feel this way? Americans have got to stop playing "team" politics. This election is not about which 'side' wins, it's about lives lost and gained, it's about economics and it's about the future of our entire planet. Yes, to me, it is as dire as all that. At this point in, what does it matter who's fault anything is? What does it matter if we're fighting a 'good' war in Iraq and Afghanistan or a 'bad' war?
    Here is my question to every 'liberal', every 'conservative', every whatever – if the candidate of your choice does NOT win, what will you do then? Gripe for the next four years that every problem this new person creates is the fault of the people who voted him/her in? What will that help? Somehow, we need to find a way to talk to each other and mend the "intellectual civil war" that is taking place currently in the United States. Who has gained from it? I'll tell you- people like Bill Reilly, Ann Coulter, Al Franken, Howard Stern. they are all making money on our deviseness and while we're busy squabbling over the red herring of whose fault the mess we're in is, the politicians- all of them- not just the ones you or I ,or anyone else personally dislike, because they don't share our particular perspective are literally getting away with murder. Do you really think Democrat politicans are all pure as the driven snow? Don't answer that- I will – with two words- Eliot Spitzer.
    You and I are happily married ( not to each other, obviously.)Yet, I would wager all four people in these two marriages, though we trust our partners 99.5%, we reserve that .5 percent of caution "just in case."
    Why don't any of us reserve that "just in case" percentage with our chosen politicans? Why do we follow blindly anybody who sounds like we want them to sound?Whether they throw the word 'God' around, or whether they throw the word, 'change' 'experience' around? Especially as we've been- all of us, whether Republican, Democrat, whatever- duped many times before? When are we going to start thinkng for ourselves?
    For example- Toe-Knee said, "I don't know if the democrats will even want to give back many of the liberties taken away by the Bush regime, but I can hope."
    My answer to that is, why should it be in their hands? if it's something we want as a country, why are we not telling our politicians that's what we want? Also- a loss of civil liberties benefits a Democratic politican as much as a Republican one. I think Toe-Knee suspects that just by the wording of that phrase. So, I prefer to reserve judgement and wait and see. If John McCain becomes the next president of the United States, or Obama, or Hillary, I don't plan to sit back and relax and just 'trust.' And arguing with my neighbour, be he a virtual one or not, is not going to solve the problems the country is having.
    FACT: Lots of people are dead, maimed, psychologicaly unbalanced, without homes, orphaned, sickened, etc. etc because of this war. It's happening NOW and will continue to happen. As a collective nation, we need to examine that.
    FACT: We are in an economic depression caused by excess expenditures. This depression is affecting Europe, China and every other trading partner the United States has. Just pick up a history book to see what poverty breeds. To quote Spider-man, "with great power comes great responsibility." The United States, like it or not, is a super-power economically. We tank, the whole world tanks with us. We don't have to make peace accords with the Arab nations because we want everybody to 'like us again,' we have to find a way to compromise because if we don't, whatever the bombs don't kill, starvation and economic ruin will.
    FACT: For every crooked politican in one party, there's a crooked politican in the next. They should not be reigning in our civil liberties – they work for us, goddamnit – we should be sure they have less power to screw us over like they have been. Why does Congress have lifetime terms? Why are they all lawyers? What laws are they puting in place that benefit their particular porkbelly cause and screw others? Why aren't we thinking nationally, instead of regionally or along party lines,when it comes to our goverment? If we can make that leap, we wouldn't have to worry about globally, that one step would fix all that. And that's what politicans know that we don't seem to. Our little nitpicking with each other helps THEM all- no matter what party.
    I for one, want to know more what the guy who doesn't agree with me thinks and WHY he thinks it, than by gathering my own little group of likeminded friends so we can mock that other person. I need to know what someone who disagrees with me thinks, for two very big reasons – 1) is so I can understand his fears and why he has those fears, what I can do to alleviate them, put them to rest ,so we can work together and 2) so I can learn something from him, because I know I don't have all the answers. As I read through some conservative posts and some liberal ones, I see that both sides present some solid, valid arguments. (When they're not busy sneering at each other,that is.)
    That's why I haven't written a political post on this election, that's why I object to 'my side, your side.' Those sides shouldn't exist. They're killing us. When bombs go off, when economy suffers, it doesn't just hit one group or another. We really need to find a way to work together.
    It's like I always say to my kids- "I don't care whose fault it is, if you can't play nicely, you can't play at all."
    In our case, that's because there won't be a planet left to on which to play.

  34. Snowy says:

    With apologies to Kirk for briefly straying off topic, I would like to offer a brief comment, Patricia, keeping in mind that I agree with the overall tone of your sentiments. Henesua and I have just had quite a long discussion on the desirability of Universal Health Care in the U.S. Our discussion was more on how best to achieve this, rather than on any disagreement on desirability. The question of how arises from your comment. How do the people bring about change in the U.S., or any other country for that matter? Once freedoms have been stripped away, the task of regaining them is a formidable one, given the conservative nature of the media in our countries. O.K., I did say I'd make it brief, so I'll leave it there.

  35. Kirk says:

    Thanks for commenting, Tony. Good to see you!I used to say I wasn't decidedly on either side of the fence. In fact, it wasn't so long ago that I leaned to the right a bit when it came to gun control. Politics is of course never simple and clear-cut, but in a two-party system, one must make certain choices and while I see Democratic politicians as far from perfect, I feel liberal thinkers are the ones most likely to fix the mess we're in right now. I just don't see the right reversing what the Bush administration has done; there's just too much slush money at stake. Add to that this bizarre need to impose a religion they blatantly defy whenever it is convenient.My rant was decidedly partisan, but it has been a long time in the making.

  36. Kirk says:

    Gleeful? Quite the contrary. I hope my peeps realize by now that I'm not one to take glee in such things. This isn't a "Nyah, nyah, we're right and you're wrong, so suck it!" kind of thing. This rant comes from nearly eight years of watching intelligent debate degrade to obtuse rhetoric and my legitimate political opinions being met with this sort of response (albeit in various creative forms). The president's remark to Hangley in the linked Salon article is directly indicative of the right-wing attitude that has brought me to this point. I am a man at his wit's end, exasperated with continually suffering such anti-intellectual pap.Now, given that I feel ignored and unimportant to my elected officials, what are my choices? Well, I have a voice and I have a set of hands. With my voice, I state here at my blog for anyone who cares to listen that much of what the right has accomplished recently is flat-out fucked up and needs to be rectified. With my hands, I can work for a better America, whether that be volunteering in a soup kitchen, campaigning for change, or fighting in a bloody revolution.The point is, as Snowy questioned, what exactly do we do about it? My first step was making it clear with this post that I am no longer so foolish as to think that a person who would rather their tax money go to killing than to schools will ever agree with me on anything. I have finally accepted that it is entirely pointless to reason with people who value destruction over creation, money over people. There is no reasoning with such people — no point in continuing to give them any sort of validity whatsoever. None.In short, anyone who is still defending Bush isn't worthy of my consideration or another moment of my time. They're wrong and I need to focus my attention on doing my part to help correct their immeasurable aberrations.FACT: Lots of people are dead, maimed, psychologicaly unbalanced,
    without homes, orphaned, sickened, etc. etc because of this war.Agreed. Here's another fact: McCain isn't going to stop it. In this two-party system, that leaves us with a Democrat. My candidate has made it clear he wants us out. My Democratic vote, whether it end up being for Clinton or Obama, is going to get us closer to end that war. Fact.I get that you think I'm missing the forest for the trees, Patricia, but that really couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not some doe-eyed n00b to politics. I know more has to be done than bitch and I know politicians on both sides are scum. We have to start somewhere, however, and when I'm met with puffed-up, macho-man attitude instead of keen and perceptive viewpoints aimed at promoting growth, I'm done. It's time to acknowledge the fat, selfish, money-grubbing elephant in the room and move on.All I've done here is point at the elephant and say, "That fucking elephant needs to go so we can fix the problems it has created."

  37. Kirk says:

    "All I've done here is point at the elephant and say, 'That fucking elephant needs to go so we can fix the problems it has created.'"Oh, and also point out that the elephant is now very tired and ripe for the business end of a metaphorical blunderbuss.

  38. I see your point, Kirk, and I understand your frustration. I was against the war from the beginning, going into Afghanistan. I'm as disgusted by these events of the last eight years as anybody else. Here's the main point on which we have a different perspective:
    The point is, as Snowy questioned, what exactly do we do about it? My first step was making it clear with this post that I am no longer so foolish as to think that a person who would rather their tax money go to killing than to schools will ever agree with me on anything. I have finally accepted that it is entirely pointless to reason with people who value destruction over creation, money over people. There is no reasoning with such people — no point in continuing to give them any sort of validity whatsoever. None.In short, anyone who is still defending Bush isn't worthy of my consideration or another moment of my time. They're wrong and I need to focus my attention on doing my part to help correct their immeasurable aberrations.
    By not giving these people any validity, how can we correct their "immeasurable aberrations?" The group of fellow Americans who put GWB in the White house (the second time) was too big to ignore then and are still too big to ignore now. We can't correct 'immeasurable aberations' unless we come to an understanding/agreement/reasonable accord with this group. It's the same as the Middle East situation, or any other situation upon which there are two different perspectives. Otherwise it will always be "us" against "them." Always.And maybe it's a naive hop eon my part that we can all agree on some vital things. I'm not talking lunatic fringe groups here, my friend, on either side. I mean two camps of reasonably intelligent people, have to find a way to come to some core agreements and agree to disagree or hash out the rest. Not by clashing egos, fears and insecurities, but by an elevated discussion on points and counterpoints. if we don't have peace within the confines of the Unted States, there is no hope for external conflicts to be settled. By ignoring each other, there is always a winner and a 'loser.' A loser never forgives, never forgets, and the resentment goes forward to future generations.
    At least, this is what I believe.

  39. Henesua is a brilliant case to further my point. (Kirk, I hope you'll escuse this little side discussion) I remember once he and I disagreed vehemently. Not once did that gentleman ever call me names or accuse me in any way of being unintelligent. And though we still disagree on that particular topic, he planted a point in my mind which has stayed with me. It is because of his points that I presented my San Francisco Zoo post in the format I did. At the end, I just think we can learn more from the people with whom we disagree, than from those with whom we agree, that's all. BTW – on whose blog was the healthcare discussion? I woudld love to read it.

  40. Kirk says:

    I feel that far-right neo-con Bush apologists are every bit as impossible to reason with and thus every bit as detestable as extremist Muslims. A terrorist by any other name, if you will. I'm simply to a point where I realize those people still harping about how this war is justified and necessary are either too frightened or too petulantly angry to listen to a single word to the contrary. There's no point talking to them because they will never listen! They merely wait until you're done talking so they can go back to their arrogant, racist rants.How do you deal with people who support a president who doesn't care what the people think and adopt his dismissive attitude? They're never changing their minds and it is a waste of time and energy to keep trying to get them to do so.You cited the re-election of Dubya as evidence of a huge far-right faction. Putting aside my feelings on whether Bush actually won fair and square, I can say that the upcoming election from which the Democrat will emerge the unquestionable victor will make it undeniably clear that most people are sick of what Bush has done. A majority of the thoughtful, intelligent ones will vote Democratic this time around. The only people I am choosing to roundly ignore are those who would vote for Dubya again if the possibility were there and I honestly don't think that's very many people anymore. I willing to risk it, anyway. I think we can create positive change without giving those bottom-feeders any more attention. I really do.

  41. Kirk says:

    I just realized I basically restated what you said here:"I'm not talking lunatic fringe groups here… I mean two camps of reasonably intelligent people, have to find a way to come to some core agreements and agree to disagree or hash out the rest. Not by clashing egos, fears and insecurities, but by an elevated discussion on points and counterpoints."We're pretty much on the same page, I think, Patricia. It is indeed these lunatic fringe freaks that I am refusing to acknowledge anymore. I'll admit my definition of "lunatic" is probably a bit more liberal than yours, though. Speaking of "lunatic fringe", here's something to lighten the mood. 🙂

  42. I understand your point and I hope you're right about the next elected official. I am reserving my judgment.From my reading/calculations of the average US citizen who goes to vote, John McCain will be the next president of the United States. Not because Hillary or Obama are any less qualified, but simply because of the racism and sexism that still runs rampant in certain parts of our country. People live in fear, for the most part and a young, inexperienced black man,or a white woman with a successful national personal smear campaign against her, have a limited chance, again- in my opinion.It's almost as though the Democrats gave this election, an election they could have won, to their counter party. In addition, those 'bottom feeders' as you call them, will be sure to get out and vote en masse, because they are dead serious about their beliefs. Democrats are also notorious for not voting. The Republican turn-out is always larger.Keep in mind, I hope I am wrong, I'll be the first to celebrate if I'm not. For these reasons, we have to find a way to dialogue. Even if in fact, we do get a Democrat this time. Maybe there isn't a way to dialogue, but I sure hope there is. And finally, I understand very well that there are some people you just can't talk to. But not every Republican, even a staunch one, is quite like that. Again, at least I hope not.

  43. Oh, heck, yes. I stopped talking to those a long time ago. Some even in my own family. There is truly no point. But i lik eto believe most people can be reasonable and fair-minded if given a chance, or if you getthem alone, perhaps. love the kitty post. Thanks!

  44. Kirk says:

    "…love the kitty post…."I only mentioned it because the song I used as the soundtrack was "Lunatic Fringe" by Red Rider. 😛

  45. Snowy says:

    I think this is related to the topic, Kirk. Again, my apologies if it isn't.Health care discussion was here. I do feel strongly about this issue, and see it as an issue that both Democrats and Republicans would get behind if there was a clear alternative presented to the people. I am rather proud of our system here in Oz which I feel caters for all, and is a ready made model for those in the U.S. looking for an alternative that works for the people, as apart from the lobbyists. I have given a lot of thought as to how, and am thinking of creating a group on Vox as a first step towards introducing a single payer health care system in the U.S. Anyone interested?

  46. Kirk says:

    "I think this is related to the topic, Kirk. Again, my apologies if it isn't."I don't worry about my comment threads getting off topic. I'm just thrilled people are talking. 🙂 I like to feel like people got the point of my post, but if the conversation heads off in a new direction, as conversations are known to do, so be it. I really appreciate everyone's input.

  47. Kirk says:

    Forgot to respond to:"I have given a lot of thought as to how, and am thinking of creating a group on Vox as a first step towards introducing a single payer health care system in the U.S. Anyone interested?"Certainly! I'd love to hear your ideas on the health care issue and what can be done about it in particular. And I'm intrigued as to what this group would entail and accomplish.

  48. Snowy says:

    O.K. Done. Anyone wanting to join the Universal Health Care group can do so here. I, too, will be interested to know what we can achieve, Kirk. We can but try.

  49. One of my fav's. I have it on my treadmill music setting. Did you ever see the film, Vision Quest, in which it was featured?

  50. I will save this Snowy and heck this out. I would like to join the group. May I? I actually had a few ideas on how we might have a better health care system without upsetting the capitalist mindset overmuch.

  51. Kirk says:

    "Did you ever see the film, Vision Quest, in which it was featured?"As a varsity wrestler at the time that movie came out, oh yeah, I saw it. Several times. 🙂 I got the song for the cat video from the Vision Quest soundtrack CD, in fact. Heh.

  52. Really??! Cool! Was that a hell of a movie or wasn't it? Did it ever make it big in theatres?

  53. snoringKatZ says:

    I did something I've never done which is vote in a primary. I detest being labelled anything politically, being identified with any particular group. But I decided to ride the fantasy express that says somehow my vote counts. Yeah, I know it doesn't but I like to pretend sometimes.As I stood in the line o' Democratic primarihood, I observed three older people – probably late 60s, early 70s – waiting in the other half-o-alphabet line. That in and of itself is odd. The standard saying is that Democrats in Texas are Republicans everywhere else. And there are no old Democrats.Two men, one woman, all apparently well-off based on dress and corporate haircuts, shiny belt buckles and glistening boots, tasteful outfit from a store I can't afford to walk in much less buy anything. You get to know these things when you live in a relatively small city.They all arrived separately, greeted each other, surprised to see the others there. They began talking very animatedly about how they have never voted Democrat in their lives, never imagined they ever would but they were convinced that John McCain is nuts. Words like "bitter veteran" and "mean" and "around the bend" punctuated their discussion.It's not my habit to listen to others. I spend my day tuning people out and am very good at it. But I was so fascinated to hear those words coming from those mouths that I couldn't help myself.Foolish mortal that I am, I have a glimmer of hope that there are sane people left in this country who are slowly coming out of their collective political coma and saying, "Wha-? What the hell happened while we were out?!?"

  54. Snowy says:

    But of course you can join the group, Patricia. It is open to all. I'm working on a post outlining my reasons for starting it, and suggesting a starting point for discussion. Maybe tomorrow though, as Mrs Snowy has decreed that I'm otherwise occupied today. ;o)

  55. Kirk says:

    "Was that a hell of a movie or wasn't it?"Yeah. I actually wrestled against stacked monsters like Shute, so when he was on-screen, I felt the tension."Did it ever make it big in theatres?"Afraid not. It took place in Spokane, which is in my home state of Washington, and that's another reason I personally got into it. But movies about high school wrestling don't get many people pumped up, evidently. Can't imagine why not. 😉

  56. It took place in Spokane, which is in my home state of Washington
    One of my stepsons just graduated from Whitworth. So, I have actually been in your hometown and found it quite nice. I didn't realise when I saw the film that it took place there. I'll have to rent it and see it again. I also wonder whatever happened to Red Rider…..

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